Yahan krsna: wherever Krsna is there. Krsna is absolute. He can be present in His various potencies. He can be present by His name only. Just like we chant Hare Krsna -- He is present, because His name is not different from Him. That is the absolute sense. In relative sense... Suppose somebody calling me in my apartment, "Swamiji." Swamiji is here. The response cannot be. Just like in telephone. Yesterday Raymond was calling us by phone three thousand miles away. As soon as we took the, I mean to say, hanger, we could immediately hear him. If by material ways we can be touch in so swiftly, just see how much spiritual potency has Krsna. Although He's not present before us, He can be present in so many ways. He can be present by His name. Otherwise, all these great acaryas, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, would not have bothered themselves simply by chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. There is actually presence of Krsna. If you take any material thing... Suppose a very nice thing, a rose flower. "Rose flower, rose flower, rose flower" -- how long you can chant "rose flower"? Say thrice, four times, ten times, twenty times. Any more, you'll become disgusted. This is the test. But Hare Krsna you can chant twenty-four hours, you'll not feel tired. That is the test of absolute and relative.

So relative name and absolute name. Krsna, if you always keep Krsna in your presence, then where is the possibility of ignorance and delusion? No, there is no possibility. And this is the shortcut way of keeping Krsna always with you on your tongue -- Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama... And if you are rigidly in this chanting process, you must understand that Krsna is with you and there is no danger, there is no illusion, there is no maya. Krsna can be present by His fame. Just like we read something, we discuss something about Krsna's activities -- "Oh, He was present in the Battle of Kuruksetra. He became the charioteer and He delivered the lectures on Bhagavad..." These discussions, that is also presence of Krsna. Then His pastimes. Just like His lila in Vrndavana or with any other devotees. There are many lilas. Then Krsna's associates, those who are devotees of Krsna. If you speak about them, that is also a presence of Krsna. If you talk about Narada Muni, if you talk about Vyasa Muni, if you talk of Lord Caitanya, if you talk Rupa Gosvami -- those who are, I mean to say, unalloyed devotees of Krsna -- if you discuss about them, then Krsna is there. He is present by His name, He is present by His fame, He is present by His pastime, He is present by His associates. Anything in Krsna connection, that makes Krsna present in that spot. This is actual fact. One has to realize it, that's all.

So we may not... Just like the sun is so many millions miles away but he is..., sun can be present before us by his sunshine, his potency, sun's potency, energy. Similarly, these are all Krsna's spiritual energies, and He is compared with the sun because He is the original sun. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. From the spiritual planet, Goloka Vrndavana, the glowing effulgence, brahmajyoti, is coming out. How it is coming out? That we can very easily understand. As the sunshine is coming out, emanating incessantly from the sun disc, similarly the real sunshine, brahmajyoti, is coming out of the spiritual planet Goloka Vrndavana incessantly. That is called brahmajyoti. Yasya prabha prabhavato [Bs. 5.40]. And due to that incessant shining, all the shining which you are experiencing, even this lamp, even this electricity, fire, moonshine, sunshine, any shining, that is due to that brahmajyoti. So yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. In that shining, this material world, the spiritual world, they are resting. So impersonalists, they are concerned with the shining, that's all. The difference between the personalists and impersonalists is that impersonalists, they take that shining as final. But the personalists, they take, "No. Krsna is final." That is their difference of opinion. Otherwise, both of them in the spiritual realm. And so far Krsna is the cause of brahmajyoti, there are many evidences from Vedic literature. In Isopanisad and other Upanisads, in Bhagavad-gita also, the Lord says, brahmanah aham pratistha: "I am the source of brahmajyoti." You'll find in the Fourteenth Chapter, last verse, brahmanah aham jyoti. Is there any Bhagavad-gita? You find out Fourteenth Chapter, last verse.

Satsvarupa: The English?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Satsvarupa: "For I am the abode of Brahman, immortal, and the imperishable, of eternal law and of absolute good."

Prabhupada: That's all? So He's the source of brahmajyoti. So if we have such realization that Krsna is absolute, and if we realize... It is a question of realization.

Now, when you chant Hare Krsna, if we chant mechanically, then the effect is different. I have already given you ten kinds of offenses there are in chanting Hare Krsna. So mechanical way of chanting is also another offense. So offenseless chanting... Of course in the beginning, neophytes, we are apt to commit so many offenses. But we should be careful that the chanting should be offenseless. Then we shall realize that Krsna is present by His name. He is present. You'll realize and you'll have the same effect as you expect by meeting Krsna personally. You can see Krsna and you can hear Krsna. Because Krsna is absolute, there is no difference between seeing and hearing. That is the absolute sense. People give more stress on the eye: "Oh, can you show me Krsna?" Oh, can't you hear Krsna? Why do you give...? This is also one sense, that is also another sense. Do you think by seeing you'll understand everything? You are seeing so many things daily. Do you understand? So this is all foolishness, that "Can you show me?" Now we have got so many senses. So perception through any sense, because He is absolute, the same effect. Either you see Him personally or you hear Him. Rather, hearing is better because by seeing you cannot understand Krsna. When Krsna is present, all people saw Him, but they could not understand Krsna. But one who heard of Krsna even five thousand years after, just like we are hearing, we can understand Krsna as far as possible. So hearing is most important thing. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter, sruti parayana. Sruti parayana. Sruti parayana means one who is very much eager to hear about Krsna, he's a very nice qualified man. So hearing is very important thing than seeing or touching or smelling. Hearing is very... Hearing is the, is so important. When all other senses are not acting, sleeping, no other sense is acting, as soon as telephone bell is called, you get up. No other sense will act. So hearing is so perfect. Therefore according to Vedic principle this hearing is very important thing. Hearing. And one who is very much eager to hear about Krsna is very expert, because hearing is knowledge.

So if we hear Krsna, about Krsna, His name, His fame, then Krsna is present before us. And Lord Caitanya is giving another instance:

In the Bhagavatam where describing the illusory energy... When Vyasadeva wrote Srimad-Bhagavatam he, first of all, he meditated himself in bhakti-yoga.

Maya ca yat, yaya sammohito jiva. So this maya, Krsna's maya, this illusory energy, external energy, also saw. Vyasadeva saw. He saw Krsna, apasyat purusam purnam. He saw the Supreme Personality as well as His maya. So maya, yad-apasrayam. Maya cannot come before Krsna. Because... Just like the sun. Sunshine, there ignorance or darkness cannot come, cannot approach. So he saw. Vilajjamanaya yasya sthatum iksa-pathe amuya. The maya is ashamed to come before Krsna because she is entrusted with very thankless task. Maya is entrusted by Krsna to take the conditioned souls and take charge of them. And maya has taken charge of all us conditioned souls, and her task is to punish, simply beating. So that is a very thankless task. She is discharging the duty entrusted to her by Krsna, but everyone, especially the transcendentalists, oh, they are hating, "Oh, maya, maya, maya." Nobody will like, transcendentalists, maya. Either personalist or impersonalist. But she's engaged. Just like police. Police is engaged by the state, but nobody likes police. Everyone will criticize police. Thankless task. Because they, unless they become strict, unless they become red-hot iron (?) they cannot execute their duty. That is their way of punishing. But people do not like them. Nobody likes police. You see. Even a police comes all of a sudden here to sit down here to hear us, we'll suspect, "Oh, he has come with some purpose." (laughs) It is such a thankless task. Similarly, maya is entrusted with thankless task. She cannot approach Krsna, neither she is liked by the conditioned souls.

So here it is said, vilajjamanaya yasya sthatum iksa-pathe 'muya. Why? Vimohita vikatthante. And illusioned by that maya, vikatthante, talks like a madman. What is that? Mamaham iti durdhiyah. The foolish conditioned souls are absorbed in two things: "I am," and "mine." "It is my, it is I am." "I am the lord of all I survey," or "This is my country, this is my society, this is my body, this is my son, this is my children, this is my home." This is..., this is the absorption. Although nothing belongs to him -- in a moment's notice everything finished -- but still he's so much vikatthante. "O my society, my country, my father, my mother." So many, "Mine, mine." Nothing belongs to him, but he says always, "Mine, mine." "My" and "I." This is maya.

So this maya cannot approach to a person who is always engaged in Krsna consciousness. This is the version of Lord Caitanya, and with evidences. So if we want to be free from the clutches of maya, then this is the only path -- to become Krsna conscious. There is no other means. Because here it is clearly stated, krsna surya-sama. Just try to understand the argument. Krsna surya-sama: Krsna is just like sun. Maya andhakara: and the maya is just like darkness. It is darkness. So just you cannot imagine where there is sunshine there can be darkness. Similarly, Krsna is just like sun; how can you imagine that Krsna and maya can exist together? No. That is not possible. If there is maya, there is no Krsna. And if there is Krsna, there is no maya. This is the test. If we are still in maya, that means I'm out of Krsna consciousness. And if I am actually in Krsna consciousness, there is no existence of maya. And what is the symptom of maya? Mamaham: "My country, my society, my father, my mother, my wife, my children, my property, my position, my, my, my." There is no end of "my," although nothing belongs to him. This is called maya.

So the more we make progress in Krsna consciousness, this "my" consciousness and "I" consciousness will vanish. Just like while eating, the hunger and weakness will vanish. When you are hungry, you have not eaten in three days, we become weak and we become hungry. So this is natural consequence. And as soon as you begin to eat, this weakness will disappear and the hunger will disappear, and satisfaction will come. There is no doubt about it. Similarly, if these two things cannot stand together, maya and Krsna, then if I am in Krsna consciousness then there is no question of maya. It may be that I'm not fully Krsna consciousness. That may be. Just like while eating it is not that immediately my hunger is satisfied or immediately I get my lost weakness. Takes little time. Similarly, Krsna consciousness may be a gradual process of advancement, but this is the rule. If we are in Krsna consciousness, there cannot be any existence of maya, illusion. That is the test. If I am still in illusion, then I should understand that my business in Krsna consciousness is not progressing. This is the test.

This is a very nice thing. Why Krsna consciousness does not advance? Because due to our lack of surrender. We have got doubts that "Whether Krsna consciousness can make me actually advance?" We have got doubts. So long we have got doubts, the Krsna consciousness is not progressing. We should clear all doubts. That is, you have got, everyone has got right to clear doubts. Clear doubts. If you think Krsna as ordinary man, then that is doubt. Ordinary. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Foolish persons, they think Me as ordinary man." But He's not. He's God. We should not be, I mean to say, detached from Krsna because He's sitting on the lap of Yasoda. Still He's Krsna. There are instances. Therefore we have to hear about Krsna. Krsna, when He was only three months old, oh, very beautiful child... As beautiful child, He's taken care of other ladies and girls. Oh, it is very nice. So Putana, a demoness, she, in the dress of a very nice girl, approached Yasodamayi, and she had the desire... Because she was the agent of Kamsa. Kamsa was searching out to kill Krsna. So she came with poison in her breast so that she'll take the child, and naturally, the child, they suck breast of lady. And as soon as Krsna will suck the breast, and there is poison, it will die. That was his plan. Now Yasodamayi, she's very innocent lady. She came: "Oh, Yasoda, you have got very nice child. Will you kindly give in my lap?" "Yes, yes. Why not? Take." And she at once put the child on the breast and Krsna sucked. Krsna sucked the poison and Krsna sucked the life also. At once the demon fell, a gigantic body, and there was... "Oh, how He is powerful."(?) So He's all-powerful there in the lap of His mother. Yasodamayi thought, "Oh! God has saved my child! This demoness, they came to cheat me." Yasodamayi does not know that here is God on her lap. This is another maya. This is called yogamaya. If Yasodamayi understands He is God, then (s)he cannot, I mean to say, bring up the child just like her own child, ordinary child. Therefore she must be in ignorance, that she... Because there is the connection of love only. That's all. So out of love, as somebody forgets what he is or she is, similarly Yasodamayi constantly seeing so many wonderful things played by Krsna, still she is thinking, "Oh, He is my child. These things are happening by some supernatural power. It is God's grace. It is God's grace that my child is saved." She is simply anxious to save her child. That's all.

So these things are to be studied, to be seen. Therefore unless we hear about Krsna perfectly, then we cannot surrender. Therefore hearing is very essential. And krsna tomara... And when, as soon as we surrender unto Krsna... Krsna is very intelligent. He's more intelligent. At least two inches intelligent more. So how far I have surrendered, He knows. Simply artificially saying that "I have become Krsna conscious," He can understand. He can understand. But if actually one surrenders, then there is no question of attack of maya to him. All attack of maya finished. But the difficulty is that we have got doubts, we do not surrender, we do not understand Krsna, and therefore the difficulties always disturbing.

Thank you very much. (end)